Crushing It In Construction

#75 How To Get The Law Of Social Proof On Your Side With Jason De Vos

• Jordan Skinner

Share episode

Welcome back to the Crushing It In Construction Podcast.

Kicking off 2024 in style, with episode 75, is a chat with none other than Jason De Vos from JDV Projects in Sydney.

Since founding the company 25 years ago, Jason has grown JDV from a one-man band into a fully-formed team of construction, fitout and refurb specialists.

And it's quite clear from this conversation just how big an emphasis he's placed on instilling and upholding good values in himself, his staff and the relationships he builds with clients.

Empathy, hard work, collaboration, respect, accountability... time to get the notepads out!

Let's get started.

CONTACT DETAILS

Jason De Vos
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-de-vos
Website: https://www.jdvprojects.com.au/

Jordan Skinner
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordan-skinner-685439178/
Website: https://moonshotmedia.com.au/

Want to book a FREE 30-minute consultation call? Book a time to speak here: https://calendly.com/book-a-chat-with-jordan/chat-with-jordan

Is your company attractive to potential employees? Take the scorecard: https://moonshotmedia.com.au/scorecard

Jordan:

Hello, everybody. Welcome to the crushing it in construction podcast. I have another awesome episode for you to kick off. 2024. I'm finally back, uh, back in Australia. Anyway, I don't know some of you may or may not have known that my family and I went to the UK for Christmas. We went off to have a cold Christmas for something different and visit my wife's family. And yeah, it was an event full time. Um, you know, I don't even think we got out of Adelaide before somebody had their first injury. Somebody dropped a metal, one liter water bottle on top of my wife's head

from the overhead luggage bins.

Jordan:

before we even left the airport, which gave her a black eye and a massive. Bruise all over her forehead for the entire of our trips.

So every Fido that we've got of a 20, 23 will have a massive reminder of her taking a huge blow to the head. But it made for some interesting conversations where I've felt like I really had to get ahead of things and explained that it was a metal water bottle that came down and hit her on the head. It was nothing that I did. In fact, I, she had a bloke. Come up and met us. set low and everything looked hell it up and down and looked at me and said she won't do that again. Mushi so yeah, it was, it was interesting. It was, um, although it wasn't very pleasant at the time. It's Made for a good, a good story. When we got on the other end. but I tell you one thing. I really write cold Christmases. I I'm going to go out on a limb and I'm going to say that. Cold Christmases in the UK are better than any Christmas you have here in Australia where it's hot as hell. And you can barely step outside on concrete. Yeah, without burning your feet. And, if it wasn't for, for such a brutal flight, and even more brutal flight, when you're trying to get two kids across on, a 25 to 30 hour flight. I think we do it every year. but yeah, it was a really good time. It really, really relaxing time. I think it was four weeks I had off, which was really cool. I can't remember the last time I've had that amount of time off, but we are finally back. and I'm keen to kick off the year keen to interview. lots of different, interesting people in the construction industry. And this week we are kicking off the year with Jason Devoss from J D V projects based out of Sydney. And we recorded this episode. Just before Christmas, I think. And I planned on. releasing it while I was away. But as soon as I got on the plane, the laptop got shot and I basically forgot to open it for four weeks. But, yeah, this is a really interesting episode and I just listened to it back before I recorded this intro to the podcast and Jason has some really interesting insights into different things, within the construction industry in different philosophies about how to run a business It's a really interesting episode. He's a really articulate bloke. and has some good things to say. So I think you're really going to enjoy this episode. It's a great one to kick 20, 24 off with, so let's get into it.

Jordan:

Morning, Jason. How's it going, mate?

Track 1:

How well, how are you?

Jordan:

not bad, mate. I, uh, I see you check the time there. I know it's, it's morning for me still, but it's afternoon for you. Correct. It just ticked over in the afternoon.

Track 1:

It just did tick over, so I'll say, although sometimes it feels like it's already four o'clock in the afternoon, but

Jordan:

Yeah. so how's your day going, mate? You got, many fires to put out?

Track 1:

We've been putting a few out today, mate, I've, a little bit short staffed today, so my, my GM's off on a couple weeks off at the moment, so I'm sort of covering his workload as well. So it's, it's been busy to say.

Jordan:

Oh, fair enough. So, for, for everybody that's listening, I know you and I have had a conversation before, but for everybody that's listening, could you just give us a bit of a background on who you are and what it is that you do?

Track 1:

Yeah, sure. Love to. Thanks Jordan. so my name's Jason devoss. I'm the founder and the md here at JDV projects. we're a Sydney based construction firm. we've got projects, all over the, the eastern states and Australia. Um, we are. Headquartered in, Sydney, and principally we do most of our work, I'd say in New South Wales, but, got a lot of clients with a national footprint. So, we have to have the capability to service those clients on a, broader area basis. Um, the, the, operations in other states. Um, 25 years old this year. So it's, um, something they're, we're quite proud of. the marketing department's just putting their finishing touches to our, our 25 year book, which has, been a bit of fun. Yeah.

Jordan:

Yeah. So you, are you, uh, having a bit of a shindig, a bit of a party for the 25 years or,

Track 1:

Yeah, we are actually, unfortunately, it's one of these things that it might have to wait till the new year. It was supposed to be, latter part of this year. But I think time's got away from us a little bit. But yeah, we're definitely planning to do that. That's, something that's worth celebrating, I think.

Jordan:

yeah, absolutely. I mean, I, I seen a stat the other day that I think it's, is it Only 4% of companies get past 10 years in business.

Track 1:

Yeah, something like that. That's, that's probably about right. Four or 5%. Yeah. I've heard something similar. And, I'll tell you, there's another very scary stat this year that there's been, I think it was 2,300 construction or construction related businesses have gone to the wall this year. Um,

Jordan:

that's that's that's what I was about to say. If it's 4% in every industry, I be, it's 0.4 in construction that get to 10 years.

Track 1:

Oh, absolutely. And I think, you know, especially in the last five years, I mean, it's been a really tumultuous time, I guess, starting with a, you covid and we, we really didn't know that was gonna look like at the time. And guess, obviously then inflation refreshes and then the shortage of, materials and, certainly labor skilled labor's a challenge. So we've, I think the, the poor old businesses in the construction space have had it a little bit tough in the last, in the last few years that's for sure.

Jordan:

Yeah, I don't think anybody had argued with you there. so us a little bit of background about you. how did you get into the construction industry? where did it all start?

Track 1:

Yeah. I'd love actually answering this question'cause it like so many people when I, finished school, way back in the late eighties, I'm sure I'm my age there, I had absolutely no idea what I wanted to do. like so many people I. I moved outta home living with some mates and thought, you know, okay, I need a job. So I fell into laboring and I was a builder's. Laborer was my, my first real, job. And I guess after a year I thought, you know what? Actually this is, this is for me. I think I like construction, but I. Then I think I, thought about it that I really better get an education. So I, I applied, for uni and I enrolled in uni at the end of that year. And I got a cadetship with, what was then concrete constructions, which are one of the, biggest builders in the, in the country at the time. And, And, you know, I went from my, my man's wages, you know, as a builder's laborer to, taking a$10,000 a year salary as a, as a, cadet. And, and you know, the last few days of every month, I rode my bike to work'cause I couldn't afford to put petrol in the car or even buy a bus ticket.

Jordan:

Yeah. and so what was the journey from, that cadet ship eventually, you striking out on your own?

Track 1:

I spent six years at, Concretes, part-time study and, and worked through various parts of the business. It was good grounding to work in a really big construction company at the time. And, um, I, I met an older chap at, uni actually. And, and, he convinced me that come and join him and, you know, to have a, have a go at working with him in another business that we'd sort of started. And, was going really well. We were, you know, By the late nineties, 97, we were building some Midrise apartments in Sydney. And, things were going well, but, a couple of bad contracts, a couple of loss making jobs, a client who went broke on us, and, um, you know, soon it was all over. So, so at the age of 20, I think it was 27 or 20 the time, found myself at a, at a point where, You know, with reflection, I, I, I didn't know what I didn't know. I was probably really young and naive and I, I learned a lot of lessons back then. expensive, but, valuable lessons. And I guess that's how JDV that gave rise to JDV and that's how it started.

Jordan:

and so. bit of a, a topic that's going around at the minute is, you know, like a, a lot of young people aren't wanting to come into the construction industry. It's very combative. You sometimes not a nice environment. When you were coming outta uni and into construction industry, I mean, what was your take on the environment?

Track 1:

it's probably still the same as it is today to some degree. It's, it's, you know, it's It's a hard industry. There's no secret about it. But, you know, if you, if you enjoy, hard work, then, it's, it can be a very, very. Rewarding industry to be in. it's more professional most people give it credit for. I think, you know, there's sort of a builder just seems to be, oh, I'm a builder. But I think as a, an, construction business these days, they, they're very, very, very professional businesses and we operate in a highly regulated space. so they need to be, need to be very, very well run.

Jordan:

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And so did you do anything else other than construction? I mean, did you work in any other industries? Did you do any other jobs?

Track 1:

Oh, I think, well, I'll say when my first real job was a builder's laborer, but I think before that I, I got a job as a door-to-door salesman selling security systems in, in greater Western Sydney. And I, I gotta tell you, I think I was the worst salesperson there ever was. So I, I think, I think that. That gave rise to me getting a job as a laborer.'cause I was a, at that age, I was a, I was a young kid and I was a really lousy salesperson. Very long in that space.

Jordan:

So, was there anything that you learned in your, salesman days that transferred across that you ever caught yourself using?

Track 1:

probably not, but I do think it just. Breed resilience. And I think maybe, certainly taught me to, be communicative. I, I think, I still think that's the essence of, JDV as a business as well, that every successful business and, and in construction, gotta be a good communicator. and I think you've also, gotta have some empathy. Everybody in the cycle of a project. You know, I think that's probably one of the most important things, and it's something that we spend quite a bit of time in this business, in, in JDV, about actually having, having, conversations and having empathy for the various participants in a project. And, I say to, All our team, you know, your first obligation is you, you just gotta be nice, you know? No, no one, no one likes a nasty person. And, and I sound like I'm talking to my daughters now. but I think that is, that is. an important thing. And, I think if, if you are the first person to be, respectful with your communication and you have a little bit of empathy, still be hard and fair, then people will, will see you as being fair. You know? I don't think you have to approach everything you do as, adversarial sense, rather, you know, let's be collaborative. I think that's the key to everything.

Jordan:

Yeah. Yeah. And so wanna take a little bit of a step back Did you always have ambitions to start your own thing, do your own thing? Or was it just happenstance?

Track 1:

Yeah. I would probably say, not ambitions to start my own company, but I think almost like the necessity, you know, when you find yourself standing on the street with no job and pretty much lost everything going, wow. What, what happened there? Um, then that's the, necessity part. And I thought, oh, well, I'll tell you what I do this, but I'll have another go here, but I'll do it. My way, and I'll do it with a different mindset. you know, I still use the saying today that, you know, at the end of the day, construction is not, it's not inherently hard. If everyone did what they said they're going to do, when they said they're going to do it, it's not that hard. Um, so, you know, gotta lead by example. You know, I set high expectations and have good processes and tight admin and good planning. And, you know, if you, if you're personable, firm, and fair, have a bit of empathy with how you do things and everybody else in that, project process, you know, from the client to the cleaner at the end of the job, if you've got a respect and a, and of empathy for them, I think that, that, sets you up in, in a good place to be. And then people then will believe in you as a, person, as a leader, as a, as a business.

Jordan:

Yeah, so just playing Devil was advocate here, but suppose you did have a choice when you found yourself sort of standing there with nothing. You could've gone and got a job though, but you chose to start a business. Like, what was it that, you towards the business rather than getting another job?

Track 1:

I think that's just a desire always to, it's a, a naive desire at the time that, you know, if you want to, to be your own boss or work for yourself, you know? And I think there's many, many people have before me too with that, that thinking about, um, wanna work for myself, but I, I think it's, I think it's a really interesting observation that, you know, back in that, that early day when I was, I was the one man band and I was, I was everything. what a relief. When I, I hired my first, foreman, you know, that, that took a huge amount of pressure off me. And then, then I hired my first project manager, and I think it's actually at that point in time that you actually. Realize that now you've got a business. I often say to people too, it's a, it's a lot easier to probably, you know, 25 years down the track, it's a lot harder to, to, I don't know, even extract yourself out of wanting to start one. Anyone can start a business. down the road, pay your fees, get a company and you, you're off, you're in business. But, uh.

Jordan:

so I'm interested to know since you started JDV, what I suppose are some of the, the three most points that you've been through to get to where you are now in the business.

Track 1:

yeah, I think pivotal points, you know, I think one of them probably is, is the very, very beginning. you know, I think that transition from a one man band through to maybe a dozen people, um, probably the one of the hardest phases.'cause you, you go from doing pretty much everything yourself to having to set up. structure and process that other people can follow. next hardest phase is from 10 to 20 and 20 to 30 and, and so on. each shift in a, business size puts a whole lot more pressure on other, other moving parts of the business. As for a pivotal stage. other one I, I would mention is that's only just recently that we did, as we approached our sort of 25 years, we, took that opportunity to change our brand, our logo, our, corporate identity, our messaging to the market, website, collateral, absolutely everything. you know, same people, same business, but we changed how we. Present ourselves and, and how we, uh, want to be seen in, in the market. And I, and it may be realized just how much IP and how much stuff we, we really have. And it's one thing I, I've said too, when we finished all that, it was like a 10 month process. And I, I'm, never doing that again, or not for a very long, not for a very long time, I think like anything, you know, you have to To change the model, you know, like if you, if Toyota was still out there selling the, the Land Cruiser that was the, the same as it looked 25 years ago, well, I'm not gonna go so well. So everything, everything evolves and I think that's a, your business evolves and at some business does go on and do that. You know, I think some of the, businesses in the country do change their, identity from time to time.

Jordan:

I know you probably touched on this a little bit there, but like what was the motivation for that branding change? You know, traditionally marketing within construction, branding within construction, because of the way we find work isn't typically valued that highly. Like what the catalyst for that?

Track 1:

I think that that's absolutely right. And so that, that's probably been my mindset. But I also think in this day and age, it's a, we're very much in that digital era. But construction businesses of any business for that matter, really needs to have a, quite a, unified, suite of, of, brand and, and guidelines. And I think what happens to many businesses and, and, and now's absolutely exactly that. It's things just evolve over time and, Changes something and there's a logo and there's just this evolved collection of collateral. And, so we, we got a brand, strategist who came to work with us and, had a, very structured process of what this next 10 months was going to look like. Uh, not only just the, the logo and the tangible stuff, but what's the deeper messaging and the needed to align with. Who we are as a business and who we've become and, and how we, want to be seen and, and how we conduct ourselves. So all of that now I think is all very nicely sort of meshed into each

Jordan:

Hmm. So you and I were chatting a week or so ago, and. An interesting point that you made was around margins in construction and it's a touchy subject, you know, everybody understands that in this game, margins are thin, But you had an interesting observation around why you think it's gotten the way it is. Could you explain that?

Track 1:

yeah, sure. I think, you know, if I go back to the, the GFC or, and I guess call that 2008 or oh nine, 15 years ago now? you our own experience, I think like I. You know, we were a lot smaller business at the time, but we had some great clients and, emerging reputation, good track record. but like so many businesses, our, our clients just, pulled the purse strings shut and there was that real, you know, we're not spending any money we will make do with what we've got attitude. Um, you know, whilst we had runs on the board and nice pictures and. Glowing testimonials, the reality is, so did everybody else. so we, I think as an industry, only one thing left to compete on, and that was, that was price. we all did, we all did it. and then that led, I think, to some razor thin margins that, you to this day as an industry, we've, we've never gotten over. I honestly dunno why the cost of construction or the cost of business rather is ever increasing. but the evidence before us today even suggests that that's the case. I think I don't, I think there's too much emphasis on, on, rather than value. Um, you know, I said earlier, I think there's 2300. Construction or construction related businesses Have gone to the wall this year. So I think a lot of businesses, smaller businesses don't even. No, or have, have a real view on what their true cost of operation is. you I still hear stories of, people, putting, bids in and, and with 2% margins or something. And if that's 2% on a, a project margin that's gonna translate to probably, I dunno, minus 10% at a, on a corporate level. every business has got some, significant overheads proportionate what it is they do. Uh, need to be properly accounted for.

Jordan:

And, one other thing that I think accounts to that is there's very few other industries where the client can almost dictate how you do. The job as well down to the bolt you use or, or whatever. And, if the client is dictating every line item, it's very hard not to be perceived as an order taker. And if you're an order taker, then you can be replaced. And I think that's, a certain extent, you some of this race to the bottom comes from.'cause there's really no, great way to differentiate that I've seen so far, or there's not a lot of people doing it anyway.

Track 1:

I tend to agree. I think what I'm seeing now and in the modern era, I call it the last 10 years or so, is that everything we do is effectively a design and construct contract. even if the client has, has, I. Had their project, fully documented or fully designed and documented that ultimately the advice that client's receiving or is that sign the builder up on a design and construct contract, and, and that's sort of the final bit to, assign any, design risk to the contractor again. So if the contractor's in there on this razor thin margin and then accepts the design and construct provisions of a, a contract, which really is, it's, it's designed and construct only for the purpose of risk assignment. then it's a dangerous place to be. Um, little margin and fer error. Um,

Jordan:

and that's the thing. Error or unforeseen circumstances, like there is so much that can go wrong it's a civil project or a building project, that 2% wouldn't cover the paperwork on that thing going wrong.

Track 1:

No. not at all. and I think it's all, it all stems also right back to the beginning where, you know. consultants, architects, engineers, um, services designers. Everyone's being, to some degree, negotiated downwards with their fees and, is the proper amount of effort. and diligence being applied to that project, and if even if the design consultants just don't have the appropriate fee to invest effort resources into that project, that need to be, that, that already is a problem. And then, then aren't properly documented and they're not properly coordinated. And, and then along comes the, the poor old haplos builder with his 2% margin. taking it on as a design and construct and all the, things that aren't properly resolved that are yet to be discovered generally all become their problem. It it's a recipe for disaster.

Jordan:

cause it comes down to differentiation, doesn't how are we perceived to be different and to add value? if we can't, that's left to compete on is price. So I know it's easier said than done, but is there anything that you guys are doing or have seen done in that area to try and, you away from simple race to the bottom.

Track 1:

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And I, I think that was probably also one of the contributing factors to our desire to change all our branding and messaging again. to support Point of difference. And, and I think it's that we as a business and, and, and me particularly, but as a, as a, as a business, I'm, I'm really laser-focused on a principle of the law of social proof. we're fiercely protective of our reputation. And, Building the relationships with our clients. You know, it's one of our taglines as a business that we deliver exceptional projects and enduring relationships. And, if you get that bit right, then business development and, referrals, it kinda takes care of itself. Not entirely. You still have to go and, find your next projects and, build your network. But if, you've got. The law of social proof working for you on your side. you are halfway there. At least more than half probably.

Jordan:

How do you see tangibly the branding side of things, what you've invested there, helping that differentiation?

Track 1:

for me, I think it's. It's a way of articulating some of the underlying principles that we have as a business. we're not out there saying we are the cheapest. but what we will do is we'll give the, the client the optimal balance of, of a great project experience, great value for money, um, Terrific outcome that the client's going to be proud of. And, and you can only do that if you've got the right people on the project. And starts with the, builder, the head contractor, just like us. I think for me personally, I, that's what probably keeps me in this industry is that I like working with good people, um, both in the business, and clients, our, our clients, industry colleagues, subcontractors, we are a very people centric. Business and, and I've, I've probably developed a, an undocumented sort of, you know, no dickheads policy. I probably can't say that, can I? Um, probably I think, you know, sometimes you look at a project, an opportunity and go, you know what, that one's, that's not for us. Um, and that, I'm getting better at saying no. I've probably taken me a long time in this industry, and I've born from a desire to always say yes to things, but I think it's equally important as to what you say

Jordan:

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Yeah, absolutely. And so do you think there'll be a point where we do revert back to that kind of pre GFC thing? And if so, what, what do you think it's gonna take to get us there?

Track 1:

mean, I think to some degree I, I dunno that we revert right back to the pre GFC type of margins and the like, but I do think that there is, awareness is probably the word now, for the fact that construction failures cost everybody dearly. that the client, you know, I say the clients too. It's not where it starts, it's where it finishes and, I think then. Some super cheap pricing with next to no margins, et cetera. It's, it's irresponsible. And it's reckless. And, I've, you know, I've seen some, I've seen some construction company failures in the, in the last six months that I, can't help but feel very, very sorry for, a lot of the, the subcontractors and the suppliers who've been exposed to those failures.'cause at the end of the day, they're unsecured credit and they're more than likely going to. 0 cents in the dollar. And it, it really is, irresponsible and reckless of those that those companies to be out there, you know, construction companies, I guess trying to win work with zero margins, knowing full well that they've got no idea how they're gonna make this work.

Jordan:

I couldn't agree more. It is and, but it's equally as irresponsible on the behalf of the procurement people allowing that to Go ahead.

Track 1:

absolutely. that our clients have to take some responsibility in that space as well, you know, and it, it is that I spend, you know, I spend a lot of time talking to our clients about that, that difference between price and value. And if, you know, even if the clients, there's a tender process or something, you've really, you've gotta ask what is the. What is the purpose of the tender? You know, if there's, eight or 10 tenderers on the list, well then you count me out because clearly you're looking for the, the best price you can possibly get, and that's not the best value. It just can't be. There's a fundamental alignment problem when when a client holds the belief that they can take. The cheapest, price they can find and expect the most beautiful outcome and experience that it's unrealistic. It's not going to happen that way.

Jordan:

Yeah, but it's like, it's like expecting a Ferrari for the pass of a fucking datson, isn't it? Like it's not gonna.

Track 1:

Absolutely. some clients, not, not all, just some clients probably still, just can't see past that. super cheap price. And, and I think it's

Jordan:

And the irony of it is, is that if that builder or subcontractor or whatever goes bust halfway through, you're gonna pay double or one and a half times what you're originally gonna pay for it to be done properly in the first place.

Track 1:

Absolutely correct. and more than likely if they have gone bust too, they've, they've been building this project with a, a collection of the, of the cheapest, nastiest, subcontractors that they can find without the proper, processes and, and, good supervision, uh, place. And what's been built probably will been executed, more than likely be done poorly anyway. the builder's gone broken. And as, as you say, the client's gonna stand there at the end and go, I think it's gonna cost me 50 to hundred percent more get the outcome I was after in, in the first instance. You.

Jordan:

and, I, I raised that point about, you know, the onus also being on the procurement side as well. Not, to protect the subcontractor or the builder or whatever, but just, just to, I suppose, to highlight that it's, it's everybody's problem. It's not just, it's not just the responsibility of the builder, and it's not just the responsibility of the procurement department, but I think it's, Everybody needs to work together, but unfortunately we have this mentality of it's you gotta lose and I gotta win, or vice versa.

Track 1:

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think, you know, a a, a proper, a successful project is, it has to be one that's, measured on a, on a collection of outcomes. And the client's happy. They, they feel as if they've got good value, um, proud of the result, the. The builder's proud of the result. All the subcontractors and suppliers got paid. everyone's, you know, advanced their reputation. that's a successful project. when the, when there is some, you know, minor issue to deal with that, that the client picks up the phone, uh, builder, be that, you know, a year later or three years later and says, oh, there's a, there's a problem here. Um, you come and have a look at it? And the builder says, yes, absolutely with pleasure. that that's a successful project.

Jordan:

you, when we last spoke, had an interesting take on communicating the value with your Venn diagram thing. Can you explain that?'cause I thought that was, that was perfect. Like in terms of trying to convey that.

Track 1:

oh, in terms of our, our, cost and quality and the, the, the donation of, you know, three overlapping circles and one being, one being price, one being and one being time. And I think we always, there's, a beautiful bit in the middle that. all three circles will overlap and sometimes it's, you know, that that space in the middle's small, and other times it's a little bit larger. But if the client wants to pull you in one direction, it, I often say the client, well just tell me which one of the three don't you want or aren't you interested in? Um, want the cheapest price, I can. Do it cheaper, no problem. But you have to accept that we won't, it probably won't have the quality outcome that you're after, all the time or vice versa. So I, I think that's, sometimes is a quite opening to your clients. Look at that and think, oh, okay.

Jordan:

Did have you, have you seen him go, oh, you know, like, have you, have you gone through that before and actually seen somebody go, ah, shit, he's right.

Track 1:

Yeah, absolutely. I, I, I, my word I have, you know, it

Jordan:

after being pretty unreasonable about expectations? Yeah.

Track 1:

oh, not really, but I, I think even at that point in time where, you know, the, it might be a, a final negotiation or something with a, with a client for a, you know, reasonable size project and say, look, we, we've put forward to you here is, in our view that, that that's the optimal, we're right in the middle here. I can assure you that we'll, deliver you a fantastic job with a great outcome that you'd be very happy with. Um, if. push the price lower. You need to tell me which one of these you're prepared to compromise on. And it really gets the client to thinking, I think. and it does. It's about the, it's about the experience. We've gotta, we've gotta educate clients that, you know, delivering a project and, and building a building. It's, it's complicated. It's, it's not like, it's into the supermarket and, buying a, a box of Cereal and you just go down to, number five, halfway along, pull it off and take it to the counter. It's not like that.

Jordan:

Yeah, absolutely. I always like to get some questions at the end of these podcasts to try and make people think. So it is a bit of an open ended curve ball for you. What do you wish everybody understood about working in the construction industry? I.

Track 1:

I think that most people will understand, but I, I, I hope, hope they do that. It's a, it's a hard industry and, and it requires hard work and, and some stamina. And it's not for the faint hearted, but I think that it's more professional than people. Think it's, especially when you're, you know, if you start to get up over, to the, business turnover range, you're 25, 30 pushing towards$50 million type of turnover. It's a pretty sophisticated, business operation and, and you. With a lot of, quite professional people needed in there to make that business work. but I think one thing I, I've learned too, like he said, you've gotta, keep learning and you've gotta keep evolving. You know, I think that the, the history books are littered with, Business failures where, you know, the person who started a business is, you they were a really good builder or they were a really good project manager, or they worked really hard, but they didn't learn to become a really good business person. I think that's the, a leader, um. you've gotta pay attention to that. You've gotta keep evolving, as your business does, and, keep Developing your skillset sets a skillset set rather, as I say, you know, every day is a school day. I, I love the fact, I reckon, I, that I learn something new every day. And keep your mind open to that. It's, it's, it's, it's quite, it's

Jordan:

Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. and like I said, I always like to end these things with, with a few curve ball questions, but what's, what's a a weird or interesting fact about yourself that most people won't know

Track 1:

that's a tough one. I do like action sports, I must say. I, I'm a mad keen snow skier, and love sailing and racing. And I was, I was into aviation for a long time. I'd have a commercial pilot's license, and we used to own an aircraft and go all over the country, in our aircraft. And I think changed a little bit of that and, and business. But, um, I did, I do like surfing, but I'm no good at it. But I try, I'm a bit of a gumby on the surfboard, so to the point where my daughters are embarrassed when I, they come for a.

Jordan:

what did they say, dad? Just sit on the beach and watch.

Track 1:

Oh, it starts with my hat, you know,'cause like being a bit follicly challenged with thinning hair, I, I've got one of those, you know, old blokes hats with the, strap underneath it. the kids don't want to be seen anywhere near me when I've got my

Jordan:

Jesus. It's it's a bit bloody rough. I have one of those now.

Track 1:

it's harsh. I know, but, but often think, you know, I, I wish I, I wish I was right into tennis or something.'cause you could probably go along and buy a, buy a shit hot tennis racket for 500 bucks and then you've got it for a long time and off you go. But I tend to like all these sports or action type of sports that are expensive to indulge. it's probably why I'm still working hard as I'm

Jordan:

Yeah.

Track 1:

spending all my money

Jordan:

we, we we need to direct you towards a, a nice, chess board or something. Something a

Track 1:

Yeah. Yeah. I get pretty bored with that, man. I can't sit still. I'm not, I'm the kind of person if I, you go on holidays or something and go, right, let's go and sit around the pool. I sit around the pool for about two and a half minutes and go, right, so what can we do next?

Jordan:

Yeah. Yeah, I, I'm with you on that. I'm not good at relaxing either. this has been good fun. I really appreciate you, taking the time come on the podcast. Where can people reach out to you, learn more about JDV and just generally get in touch if they wanna learn more? I.

Track 1:

Yeah. sure. I mean obviously our website and jdv projects.com au. or, you know, love to talk to people. 1 300 0 5 0 1 0 2 or you can even email me, Jason d@jdvgroup.com au.

Jordan:

Oh,

Track 1:

up for a.

Jordan:

awesome. No worries. Well, thanks very much for your time, mate, have a good rest of your day and I mean, it's, it's getting close to Christmas. I have a good one of those too.

Track 1:

you too, Jordan. Thanks very much. I really appreciate the time to chat. thank you. It's been, it's been enjoyable.

Jordan:

No worries. I'll speak to you soon.

Track 1:

Okay. Take care mate. All best.